A Bungie employee recently did an AMA on reddit regarding the story for destiny and all the things that had to be cut out of the game and refurbished, now the credibility of this individual is still questionable because he, understandably does nothing to prove his identity as an employee for Bungie so take everything you read from this point forth with a few grains of salt.
I can confirm that there were sudden and abrupt changes in the development of Destiny less than a year ago. There was tension between higher ups the entire time we were developing the title due to a lack of cohesion about the vision for the game. One side wanted this huge space epic, like an MMO Mass Effect and the other side was not convinced that would sell and wanted to pare things back to more"easily accessible" standards. They were afraid too much story elements and cut scenes would drive players off.
Then Joe left and everything just fell apart. By the time we were 7 months out to release, word came down that we were making massive revisions to the game's story. Huge portions of dialogue were excised and I think several recordings were redone to support the new narrative. Entire areas that would have been in the final game were removed, but some of the context wasn't, which explains weird reactions from NPCs and strange, unexplained motivations. We had a guy come in to write the grimoire cards who was given access to the original script with notations on what was cut and what needed to be revised in order to make this zombie of a game seem plausible.
All of the Last City factions had their storylines and dialogue cut, the Guardian's initial introduction to the Tower and the Last City was cut, and ALL the origins were homogenized down to the one originally used for Exo characters.
Most of what was cut was planned to be re-polished into DLC, but it's all there on the disc. Not all of it is live on the servers, but it's all there on the disc. Some last minute art assets needed to be remade, which is what you'll be downloading.
It's an embarrassing disaster and not the game I thought would be published.
HumanCatnip: Will we be seeing these tidbits of dialogue or are they lost to the Darkness forever?
404Architect: I don't know the answer to that. Some of it I doubt will ever see the light of day because it contradicts the story as presented now. Some of it could be repolished and turned into DLC. That is what is happening with some of the locations on Earth and Mars.
The_Prince_of_Wishes: Was Jupiter, Saturn, Europa etc. cut content or still in development?
404Architect: They were still in development.
Fasterthanapigeon: How come the fallen can climb and there are trip wire mines in the intro... But never again?
404Architect: The introduction you know is closest to the original content, which had more robust and cinematic level design. It was originally designed for the Exo introduction but was generalized to represent all guardians closer to launch. The trip mines make a brief appearance again in the published game in the strike where you face Sepkis Prime, whatever that is called now. There were plans to include more dynamic enemy AI, but there was not sufficient time to develop that.
hardshocker: I have no way to know if you are telling the truth but I'll ask anyway. Is there a way for you, or someone else who is willing to tell the tales from inside Bungie, to give a real view of the original story to me. I don't care about getting it out or exposing anyone, I just want to know the real story that was planned. This was the one game I was excited to get in a long time and it hurts me personally that I didn't get a chance to see the true vision. There must be way for me to know.
404Architect: The closest you will ever get is the ViDoc from 2013, unless someone risks their job and jail time to get design documents out. I hope no one is that reckless.
GoCallYourMommy: From where you sit, do you feel the long term expectation is lots of DLC/patches that will be improving the game as the standard moving forward? I have just been coming to this subreddit for the last day because I am abysmally bored with the constant grinding/repeat missions and was looking to see if there was something else I have missed to keep the game interesting. I can only guess the long term strategy was to get people hooked, then pay for a better experience as time goes by to justify the costs of development/release. Seems to be the standard now in gaming regardless.
Thanks for even posting in here. I didn't realize so many people were into the behind the scenes drama, and hope you don't get attacked by too many folks.
404Architect: There is an ongoing plan to release regular DLC flow, provided the game continues to be profitable/projects to be profitable in the future. If the end-user experience thus-far is any indication, it may not be enough content. The game is considerably more barren than what was intended to ship.
I'll add a little more. Part of the reason why so much was cut and held back was to buy time. When Joe and others left it was a blow to development cycle. What was cut was cut in order to take the place of newly developed content so we could "catch up."
Larima: Were the 'higher ups' on the publishing side or the development side?
404Architect: I can't say that with any authority, but there was pressure from Activision to meet our deadline.
Larima: Will we be seeing the cut storyline content?
404Architect: In some form or another. The Reef story mission is cannibalized from the Awoken character arc.
Larima: I see. Will the coming content expand the story to be, uh, more complete at least?
404Architect: I don't know, unfortunately. Whatever shape it will be taking will not be the original direction the game was designed in.
That said, I do think what is developed in the future will attempt to "right" the sinking ship. There are still many talented and devoted people there.
Larima: So, the story of Destiny in the future has yet to be written basically?
404Architect: In a fashion, yes.
But if some things stay aligned to the original outline, the past has yet to be written too.
Larima: Do you think the, uh, let's say 'vague' story is making the development of a more complete one easier at all?
404Architect: I will say it is making more work.
Larima: Ah. Are there any plans to do anything with the tower factions? I would like to back Dead Orbit in some other way than being fashionable with their cloak.
404Architect: Everything for the factions was cut. I do not know if there is plans to expand on them as was intended in upcoming DLC. Possibly? That's uncertain at present.
Larima: That's a shame. Was there plans for a faction war system? Who was new Monarchy's 'Monarch'. What's the deal with the FWC? Dead Orbit's deal was to just leave the solar system, right?
404Architect: All of those points were detailed in the original plan for the game. Each faction had a distinct story. Voice acting was recorded (beyond the ambient voice work you hear while walking around). Some of this content may make its way back into the game in the form of DLC or patch updates. I do not know what kind of schedule or plan is on that, however.
There are whole factions that were cut as well, some directly tied to the original story and will need to be extensively re-tooled for the new storyline.
Kizdeangix: Thanks for posting this. The beginning sequence being tied to exo characters makes a lot of sense. I wish we could have gotten the human/awoken ones. Having an organic being whose been dead a really long time suddenly materialize with no context ws a terrible way to start the game. The story is nonexistent. My first play through I was always asking my friend what was going on because none of it made any sense. I feel bad for the "little guys" who worked so hard on this project, only to see the whole thing get bastardized into what we have now. The only reason I play at all is because of the fluid mechanics, musical scores, and wonderful artwork that the "little guys" made so well.
404Architect: All characters began as deceased, just not in the same location. The context was originally there, but some portions of the game were both stripped down and also not finished in time and needed to be removed. What was cobbled together after the fact removed any sense of agency or identity.
Larima: Is there more of a story as to why Joe Staten left?
404Architect: That isn't for me to say, I won't put words in Joe's mouth.
404Architect: There's still a lot to be proud of with how Destiny turned out, but it isn't the game we set out to make yet.
truemeliorist: First, thanks for responding. Please do everything you can to keep your identity safe - there are a lot of customers who want blood I think.
To your knowledge, was there ever any plan to allow inter-player interaction? I know this was one of the biggest bits of feedback from testing, and have heard that activision put its foot down and basically said "no, we think all of our players are annoying 12 year olds so no communication." No word on whether or not the last bit is true.
I know the new dev notes mention that it should be coming in a pared down format, but it still doesn't make up for the fact that those of us who don't have friends who play are more or less stuck spamming invites to people. Any non-Destiny players I try to show the game to all react the same - they love the idea that you can play with other people, but when you mention that you don't have a way to ask them if they're working on the same thing as you, they're just incredulous that that was considered a "good" thing.
404Architect: There was voice chat and player trading a year ago as well as other player/player interactive elements, as well as a more player-driven economy. The decision to cut voice chat and trading at release was a part of the new "vision" for Destiy.
Continued...
The_Prince_Of_Wishes: Their vision was as logical as the speaker, it seems...
404Architect: Funny enough, the Speaker was much different in the original version of the game. There is a reason that Bill Nighy was chosen to be his voice actor, and much of his recorded dialogue is not in the shipped game. I am not certain if that storyline will ever be seriously pursued now that so many changes have been made.
truemeliorist: If you are able to say, is the feedback from the community about these things missing swaying that vision at all? Or is it more of a "you'll get what we want to give you" sort of vision?
404Architect: All feedback is heard, even if you do not see a response. It is all taken to heart.
TheFiremind88: It's a simple yes or no question. If people were to organize and protest so much content being cut, is there any way it could motivate Action/Bungie to put any more of that content out closer to what was intended? It us a good game, but I think a GREAT game was advertised and intended. I personally bought a 400 dollar gaming system for THIS game. I know I'm not alone either. Despite you guys making a good game, can't help but feel cheated.
404Architect: Your wallet speaks more than any words do to some extent, but even with that said flagging sales will not inspire a change back to the original paradigm. If Destiny stops bringing in money it will stop having new content developed. Voicing your concerns, opinions, and comments is critical to informing the development team as to what direction to continue going in, however. Everyone knows the reaction to the storyline, but I don't know what will come of that recognition.
TheFiremind88: So, say there was something done, like, Boycott DLC in response to feeling let down, are you saying that's more likely to just motivate them to pull the plug as opposed to giving the people what they expected? Even if we're not moving onto the original intended design, honestly just a reasonably cohesive story, and some additional content would certainly help quell the masses.
404Architect: I can't say with any authority what Activision would do, but waning sales usually means no money to continue support and lack of incentive to continue support.
oldknave: Are people/the higher ups at Bungie aware of how nonsensical and poor/short people have perceived the story as being, and how repetitive the content seems to be, or is there kind of an attitude of "we think everything we made is great."
404Architect: Everyone is acutely aware of reaction to the story. How much that will change the "vision" for Destiny is unclear to me.
DLC sales figures will be closely watched.
RagnarokSam: Did the original vision include more planets/locations? It seems the grimore cards mention Mercury and Saturn in some context, but perhaps that's just supplemental lore rather than anything that was intended to be player interactive.
404Architect: Yes. Several more were planned.
StaticSilence: Is/was Jason Jones aware and supportive of this lobotomy to the story? Or is activision forcing their will upon bungie. Are the employees at bungie already regretting signing a ten year deal with activision?
Any answer you give can't be verified so I take what u say with many grains of salt.
404Architect: I won't speak to his motivations, that isn't my place to say. Activision isn't solely at fault for the way Destiny turned out. Many choices were made, not all of them reflective of the original spirit of the game.
GoCallYourMommy: I hope you guys get the opportunity to see your vision come to life then. I think the graphics are great, the gameplay is fun. As a 40 year old gamer who has to hide my hobby from my peers (Ha) and own every major system/platform in history I hope that comes with some satisfaction to hear. But your situation doesn't seem to be unusual for 2014 developers really. I hope the cash pours in and you guys can tell the bean counters to -blam!- off eventually.
404Architect: 500+ million in the first week. Destiny made back its development cost in 7 days.
GoCallYourMommy: Jesus Christ. That's some Call of Duty numbers. I had no idea. -blam!-ers better reinvest or they are missing out on the long term gravy train!!
404Architect: Admittedly its less than that in real dollars, but $500 million in units were shipped to stores. That's, largely, how publishers inflate sales figures using the term "sell in." But that's how COD likely gets its numbers as well, so its a fair comparison.
404Architect: Thank you for the kind words, Bungie has a lot of hard-working people at it who perform exceptionally under great pressure and tight deadlines. With that, I'm closing up my participation in the AMA, I think I've said enough. Thank you to everyone who reached out and kept things so civil.
See you starside.
He answered some more stuff...
404Architect: I know below I said I was done, but a glut of good questions came in right after that sign-off, so I am going to address anything that came in prior to 1:30pm PST to the best of my ability and then be finished. Thank you all again for the civil approach, I know many of you feel as passionately as I do about Destiny and its current state.
JamesDarrow: First of all, thank your time and willingness to talk with us all. In the face of what a number of gamers felt, myself included, your desire to speak with us is appreciated.
I have a decent number of questions, so please feel free to only answer as many as you like. At the same time, if an answer comes close to compromising you, please don't disclose. Small sects of gamers aside, I don't think any of us want to see someone have their job put on the line.
~
1: You mention tension from higher ups and a lack of cohesion about the vision for the game. Was it always this way from the beginning stages, or was this something that came in later and closer to release?
2: It's mentioned that large portions of dialogue and cutscenes were excised or redone. Any idea on how much of this was actually completed work (voiced dialogue, rendered cutscenes, etc)?
3: We know the adage, "Vote with your wallet." At the same time, like you've pointed out, if sales figures don't look good, one of the parties might pull the plug on the game. What would you recommend as the best way to convey (community email, petition, etc), for the gamers like myself, that while we might be hesitant to further invest in a fractured title, we would be willing to do so if we felt confident that it helped bring back what Destiny could have been?
4: I'm a full-time employee at my day job, along with working on my own fledgling authorial career at the evenings. As such, the amount of time I can invest into a title per day when I'm in full-swing is sometimes counted in the minutes, rather than hours. As such, can you tell how much of a focus the design team has for other content besides large reputation grinds and (sometimes) lengthy raids/strikes? For example, further campaign missions or side-stories, etc.
~
I've been a long-time follower of Bungie's work, even before I picked up the pen for my own turn at story-telling. Partly because of my background in writing, I pay a lot of attention to stories and campaigns. Due to this, my own voice does echo the sentiment of many other players out there in that the story (at least) has some problems.
At the same time, you guys did build a wonderful game in many other aspects. The art and sound assets are great, and a number of the mechanics are absolutely top-notch (gunplay, sparrows, etc). While there are issues, you guys did good with a number of other aspects and should feel proud.
Thank you for your time and answers, it is truly appreciated.
404Architect: 1: Team cohesion was breaking down the closer the final deadline came. 2013 was particular turbulent and when Joe left that was the final nail in the coffin for much of what came before.
2: Many of the lost cinematics you've seen in trailers or teasers, most of which may never see the light of day again due to how Destiny's story was altered. Cinematics for the original storyline were completed past what you know as the end of the primary story now (the Black Garden.) There were cinematics for each race's introduction (of which now only Exo remains, homogenized to incorporate all guardians.) There is a significant amount of unused voice work which is now being saved for incorporation into DLC, though not all of it can be salvaged.
3: Keep speaking out about how you feel. It may not make the difference you hope for, but it may inspire change. To quote an old fan-movement I am fond of, "crackers do matter."
4: I can't speak to that part of development.
Thank you for the other kind words, a great deal of time and effort went into making Destiny. It pains me to know so much was produced that many may never see.
elthomas21: Will there be any kind of free content updates that aren't just re-dressing of the same old story missions etc? Or are is all of the real "meat" being saved for the paid DLC?
404Architect: I do not know what the plan is for future DLC with any certainty. I will say that opinions about the lack of story is being heard loud and clear.
coporate: I heard that there were at one point over 25 completed cinematics which were later cut to 8, could you confirm?
404Architect: That number does not sound accurate at all.
gunlova: "Lack of cohesion", was that due in part to the massive growth Bungie experienced between Reach and Destiny?
404Architect: No.
itsatrickgetanaxe: Is there anything you could offer that would prove that what you're claiming is true? Anything that might prove you worked at Bungie?
404Architect: Unfortunately, no. I realize this casts a shadow of doubt over everything I say.
StaticSilence: I was under the impression that bungie was to maintain creative control of destiny. Isn't what is happening with activision what you were trying to escape from Microsoft?
404Architect: Activision isn't as instrumental in what happened to Destiny as you may think. There were many egos at work.
RagnarokSam: Did the original vision include more planets/locations? It seems the grimore cards mention Mercury and Saturn in some context, but perhaps that's just supplemental lore rather than anything that was intended to be player interactive.
404Architect: Yes. Several more were planned.
cpp_is_king: Will we see them in an upcoming DLC?
404Architect: The original content that is being withheld is being reskinned for DLC. I don't know to what extent, in what capacity, or when it will drop, but the plan going forward was to use the old assets to get a development "head start" on new content after key departures.
Einchy: What's the general morale in Bungie right now with all the backlash to the story?
Was it expected or did it come as a shock to everyone?
404Architect: I can't speak to morale.
dylanbarket: What are the chances that we will see player to player trading or gifting introduced?
404Architect: Unlikely, if the attitudes leading up to the release haven't changed. But the court of public opinion still has some sway.
creativethien: Are you still at Bungie?
404Architect: I cannot answer that.
DreadNot_Z: Yeah....I love the other elements, but the lack of story and flow really hurt...
404Architect: I agree with you, and this was not the original intention. The original storyline flowed well between all three start points.
TheFiremind88: This confuses me a little. A lot of what was cut, was cut so that it could be released later, to buy time to develop new content(If I understood this correctly)... If this is the case, why is the story going so far off from the original vision, as opposed to just coming out as intended, only delayed to buy time? Honestly, the idea that a lot got pulled to be released later doesn't really bother me, if it's in the name of giving you guys the time you need to develop more quality content, but what caused this complete morph in the direction of the story?
404Architect: I may not have explained that as well as I could have. Without revealing too much that could identify me, I will say that there was an original "design" for Destiny that was leading it in one direction. Voices were raised in dissent and (for reasons combined both of inability to meet deadlines and creative differences) the game was steered onto a new course. After Joe departed, there was a void that needed to be filled. Some of the already produced game content contradicted the new direction chosen for the story and was cut, changes both major and minor would need to be made to make it work with the released version. This content was held back to be released as DLC once re-tooled while new content (which, if the direction hadn't changed, we would've been working on already) was being designed.
Basically, the last-minute about face with Destiny cost us development hours, which needed to be made up for somewhere.
coporate: I think it should be noted that if the story was re-worked, it was done so because there were script and story problems from the beginning. While the current iteration may not be better, it's may not be worse either.
404Architect: Some people strongly believed the original story did not work. I disagree with that vision, and so did others who are no longer with Bungie.
404Architect: There are whole factions that were cut as well, some directly tied to the original story and will need to be extensively re-tooled for the new storyline.
lemon_rhind: Was that Osiris?
404Architect: Osiris was one of several. The removed factions were associated with the original storyline which was abandoned. They may reappear in new forms, or they may not.
